Just to make them atleast semi-viable for raids and dungeons.
Posted from the Council — voting happens there; discuss here.
Just to make them atleast semi-viable for raids and dungeons.
Posted from the Council — voting happens there; discuss here.
This … this is wrong tool.
Never use this. ![]()
Paladins can do something that other tanking classes (warrior, feral druid, etc.) cannot do.
Paladins … can INCREASE THREAT based on what OTHER people are doing!
Judgement of Light or Wisdom is what makes this possible. ![]()
Judgement of Light: every 2 Health (actually) healed, to anyone, yields +1 Threat attributable to the Paladin … before (Improved) Righteous Fury is taken into account.
Judgement of Wisdom: every 2 Mana (actually) restored, to anyone, yields +1 Threat attributable to the Paladin … before (Improved) Righteous Fury is taken into account.
“Overhealing” when already at max doesn’t count for this.
In a 5-man dungeon, this probably isn’t going to be a tremendous factor on the threat meter, but in a 10-man/20-man/40-man raid context, it can wind up being decisive. Judgement of Light/Wisdom procs that benefit others attribute their Threat gain to the caster of the Judgement … a Paladin. The more allies proccing those Judgements, the more Threat generated by those procs that accrue to the Threat Level of the Paladin.
Also, Taunt doesn’t exactly work the way that most people (blithely) assume.
LINK
It’s not an automagic “IWIN!” button. ![]()
Taunt
taunt gives the character equal threat to the highest player on the threat table. Also gives the player aggro despite the fact that normally it would require 110% threat to get focus. The threat does not wear off, however to maintain mob focus will mean maintaining threat so that someone else does not get over 110% of your new threat level. Note that using this ability when the mob is already focused on you doesn’t do anything – including equaling threat from the highest person on the threat table. So if you utilize challenging-shout to gain mob focus and then use taunt on the mob, your threat on the table will not jump up to match the threat of the person that was originally on the top of the threat table.
If you want to be an aggro magnet as a Paladin, who can HOLD aggro, you need to be generating THREAT. Paladins generate Threat using Auto Attack (duh) and their mana pool via use of spells (Consecration, Judgement, etc.), buffs/debuffs (Seal of Righteousness/Command, Retribution Aura, Blessing of Sanctuary, Righteous Fury, etc.) and weapon damage (1h/2h, Shield Spike, etc.).
Blessing of Salvation is also available to “tone down” the Threat generation of allies (at the expense of other Blessing options), helping the Paladin “stay ahead” on Threat when they need to.
I’m voting NO on this proposal.
Paladins are ALREADY viable for raids and dungeons.
Adding an anachronistic Taunt to Paladins would not be … wise … ![]()
Alternatively, we could UP the Aggro generation for Paladins and Druids passively. So that all of their abilities would cause more aggro gained when in Tank mode; being given a taunt would be nice but not an immediate solution.
I have been on Unchanged Vanilla servers where Paladins and Druids have raid-tanked; but it was only in Guilds that allowed anything but the Meta, and it was only in groups where everyone knew when to DPS and when to stop. Paladins and Druids in Vanilla is generally in a bad spot when it comes to tanking normal Raids, theyre great Dungeon tanks though.
Its something to think about at least, I love the No changes things too, but I think allowing people the chance to play something that isnt always just the Meta, is good for the game and the community. Turtle did Paladin tanking very well for example. ![]()
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There is some merit to this approach.
Let me play with the idea (while I’m posting here) in order to see if there’s an elegant way it can be done. ![]()
My understanding is that there are multiple spells involved with Feral Druids in order to make everything work properly at the game mechanical level.
Of that list, the ONLY spell that involves a multiplier for Threat is the Bear Form (Passive2) spell, for which my understanding is that it is only active while Dire Bear Form is active (correct me if I’m wrong on that).
I have no idea why Blizzard would have structured things this way in Vanilla, but it’s what they did (and we have to live with that, all these years later). My guess is that there’s a “limit” on the number of Effects that each spell can have (1, 2, 3) and so in order to have 4 (total, passive) effects they needed to invoke an additional passive to make everything work.
For Warriors, Defensive Stance (obtained at Level 10) grants +30% Threat generation passively with the stance.
For Feral Druids, Bear Form (obtained at Level 10) grants no additional Threat generation (natively) by shifting into the form … but Dire Bear Form (obtained at Level 40) grants +30% Threat generation passively with the form. To put it mildly, that’s quite the hybrid tax on Threat generation for a sustained run of leveling. ![]()
Paladin Threat buffing is all channeled (by design!) through the Holy magic school via the Righteous Fury spell … which increases Threat generated by Holy spells (damage AND healing!) by +60% (base). 3/3 Improved Righteous Fury can augment that bonus by +50%.
So in the case of Paladins, the OBVIOUS CHOICE IS OBVIOUS™ path to becoming a better aggro magnet is to increase the amount of Holy (stuff…) that you’re doing as a Paladin, which then gets multiplied by (Improved) Righteous Fury and thereby increases the Threat generation that you’re capable of as a Paladin.
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IF … I were in the position of the @Innkeeper and looking for a modulation of the existing game mechanics to “tweak” in order to bring Feral Druids and Paladins closer to parity with Warriors in terms of Threat generation potentials, here is what I would do.
IF … I were in the position of the @Innkeeper and looking for a way to improve the “aggro magnetism” of Feral Druids and Paladins relative to Warriors, in order to make the “competition” between the classes “fairer/less unbalanced” in this regard … this would be the approach that I would favor.
Enhance what (Bear) Druids and Paladins are already capable of and doing already, in order to better “tune” them (as classes) to the role of Threat Generator™ which is a (necessary!) pre-requisite for sustainable and competent/competitive performance as an aggro magnet.
I suspect that such a small change to Feral Druids and Paladins ought to be adequate to resolve the min-max meta competition with Warriors in a way that leans more towards a Rock/Paper/Scissors style of comparison, rather than a single clear winner (in all cases) along with two “also rans” who don’t even get a consolation prize, most of the time.
You don’t need a wholesale urban renewal, when a simple tweak (like I’m proposing here) could potentially resolve the aggro magnet competition issues better. ![]()